Q18 Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): When you were in your previous job, as chief executive of the Standards Board for England, I understand that The Guardian interviewed you and was kind enough to say: "Stacey can point to having run a start-up, an organisation that needed turning round, and one in the throes of a change of direction." You have taken over as chief executive of Ofqual. From your perspective, when you took over, was it a start-up, an organisation that needed turning around, one in the throes of change, or some or all of that?

Glenys Stacey: That is a very astute question.

Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): Pretend the people sitting behind you are not there. Tell us what you really think.

Glenys Stacey: I don't have to pretend. The position was that it had gone through start-up, but it had been a difficult birth. It was extracted from another organisation, which is always tricky. It had to move from London to Coventry. It lost a lot of staff and it was also obliged to take staff on various terms and conditions. It was at the end of a rather messy start-up. Although it was new, it already had, if you like, a little bag of legacy issues to sort. Some of those can be quite testing around, for example, systems, people and terms and conditions. It had started to do some good thinking on regulatory approaches and had started to set out that approach. It was making good progress there.

It is always difficult when you start a regulator, because you have to develop an approach without the experience of actually regulating the entities you are going to regulate, so it is a bit like flying a plane while you are building it, if you like. They were doing that and there was some good, strong thinking there, which has developed further since. It had lost a chief executive and a chairman in short order-that was a little bit careless-so it was lacking in leadership and there was a good opportunity for me there. The short answer is that it was at the end of the start-up and there were things to tidy up, but it had a changed journey ahead of it as well.

Q19 Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): So it was after the end of the beginning, but before the beginning of the end?

Glenys Stacey: Yes. It was at the end of stage one, and stage two looked pretty daunting.

Q20 Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): The Times Educational Supplement quotes you as saying, "It takes a fair while for regulators to develop, to mature, possibly 10 years". Do you think you have 10 years to advance the maturation process with Ofqual? How long do you think it will take for Ofqual to mature?

Glenys Stacey: Very few arm's length bodies last 10 years. I have not looked at the exact average, but I say 10 years because I have seen that. We have established regulators, and you see approaches develop and change over time as they build deep knowledge and understanding of not only those they regulate, but the wider sector and system those players operate in.

Q21 Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): It is a brave move taking over as chief executive of a quango, one year into a Government who have promised a bonfire of the quangos.

Glenys Stacey: I thought there was a job to be done. I relished the challenge, and I think it can make a very significant difference. You asked me how long it would take. We are developing at pace-the fastest possible pace. Indeed, it is an uncomfortable pace for those at Ofqual, and I have no doubt that our union and others struggle to keep up with it. But I am pressing it at the fastest possible pace because I know the size of the task and also the expectations. You are looking at the market model, and we are facing GCSE and A-level reform. If we want to regulate this market firmly, I believe we need to show a record of that within the next two years.

Q22 Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): What sort of goals have you set for the organisation, and how will you judge the success of the work towards those goals?

Glenys Stacey: The goals I am setting for this year-the coming year-are twofold. One is that we will contain grade inflation this summer at GCSE and A-level, and consider whether we should do so in other material qualifications as well. My second goal is that we will demonstrate a material difference to standards.

Q23 Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): We have been doing an inquiry into examinations. We had a session a couple of weeks ago when I asked one witness about the relationship between publishing companies, the examination boards and the examiners who are sometimes writing the textbooks. I said that it is a tad "incestuous", and he said no, "It is worse than that." Have you got any particular view on that?

Glenys Stacey: Yes, I do. You will perhaps know that I wrote to the Secretary of State in November last year about my concerns about textbooks, teaching aids, seminars and what I call the attendant services provided by awarding bodies to schools and colleges. There are significant issues there that we are exploring with the help of the OFT. So we are interested in the market issues and the commercial issues but, more fundamentally, in the effect on standards. I am very hopeful that from that piece of work this year, we will be able to draw the proper lines in the sand.

I am very interested indeed in the position of examiners, scrutineers and experts. They are key players in the system-there are about 5,000 of them-and they are also engaged in schools and colleges. You will perhaps have seen our errors inquiry report, in which we highlighted the relationship between those experts and awarding bodies as a critical one. At the moment, it looks a rather gentlemanly affair to me, and I would prefer to see more professional, modern-day employment arrangements, with the appropriate accountabilities and responsibilities pinned down. That might mean that those individuals should be paid more, and be responsible alongside it.

Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): When tackling vested interests of that nature, I can only say good luck with that.

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Q37 Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): Your predecessor apparently called for young people to be allowed to do some of their exams on-line or onscreen. What is your general approach to innovation of that nature, and do you see your role as driving innovation forward, or controlling risk in Ofqual standards?

Glenys Stacey: We have an innovation stocktake under way at the moment to find out from awarding bodies what innovations they have in the pipeline. We will publish the outcomes of that over the summer. My view is that innovations have quietly happened in the marketplace that we should have regard to. For example, in marking, we have seen some quiet and significant developments. We will be publishing a report on marking this year, demonstrating to people how it works, because there is limited understanding about its scale and nature. We are interested in reporting on the effects of innovation. We are also interested in showing the world at large what innovations are happening; but more than that, we want to promote innovation where it has the potential to enhance standards and not undermine them. For example, the conversation that we will now be having about the use of algebraic calculators in examinations is one such area. It is quite an innovation, and we think it has the potential to enhance the value of the assessment.

The real debate has often focused around on-line assessment, and of course much of that happens already, in some vocational qualifications, for example. When we speak to student bodies about on-line assessment of GCSE and A-level, and we have had only limited conversation so far, there is not much enthusiasm for it. There is a suspicion of systems, but there is a debate to be had.

Q38 Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): Are you content with the idea of rolling back on vocational qualifications?

Glenys Stacey: There is no rolling back in the range of vocational qualifications on offer. My understanding is that the Government have made changes to league tables, but there are other qualifications still as available as before.

Q39 Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): Interestingly, the Secretary of State said yesterday that he wanted all children to achieve English and maths GCSE at grade C or above. Do you think that is an interesting challenge for a quality standards organisation such as Ofqual to oversee?

Glenys Stacey: The challenge rests with schools.

Q40 Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): What are the most exciting developments that are likely to emerge in the next few years with regard to innovation, technology and that agenda? Do you see a brave new world of technology for exams? You have already touched on that.

Glenys Stacey: Perhaps I am a bit of a dullard, but no, I do not. When you talk about the practicalities and, for example, the logistics that would be needed, schools are not necessarily equipped to deliver on those scales, and I do not actually hear a great cry for it. But give us a chance to do our innovation stocktake and come back on it.

This is an uncorrected transcript of evidence taken in public and reported to the House. The transcript has been placed on the internet on the authority of the Committee. Neither witnesses nor Members have had the opportunity to correct the record. The transcript is not yet an approved formal record of these proceedings.

The full transcript may be read here.

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