Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): Does my hon. Friend wonder, as I do, how the global climate will be helped by our exporting jobs and manufacturing processes to countries where the regulatory framework is nothing like as tight as it is - quite rightly - in this country? Health and safety is one thing, but the impact on global climate change if we export jobs and manufacturing processes of this nature to places such as Ukraine and Russia, should not be underestimated

Stella Creasy: My hon. Friend makes a fair point. I am also concerned about what we can do to fast-track the development of renewable energy sources in our country. There is much debate about whether we have the capacity to generate more electricity through renewable energy sources, including wind and solar power, and I am also interested in microgeneration. One point about this proposal, and the subsidy that it will generate for the nuclear industry, relates to whether some of that money could be used to support the development of renewable industries. That would allow us to have a greater energy mix that relies on a wider range of sources and encourages the development of renewable energy. We would all like to see such a development, and there is no disagreement across the House that the more we do to support processes such as microgeneration, the better.

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Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman would be surprised to learn that in The Daily Telegraph in April, the chief executive of E.ON said that the measures being put forward by the Government were an unacceptable additional tax on consumers. Would the hon. Gentleman be interested in reflecting on that?

Stephen Williams: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, but it does not surprise me that the CEO of an energy company complains about new taxes being levied on his industry that will affect what he currently does to produce his profits and will require him to change his business behaviour. That does not surprise me at all; indeed, I welcome the fact that he is discomfited by the policy because if he were not, there would be no point in having it.

Afternoon

Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): Certainly, these companies are targeting places such as Gateshead for the expansion of their services. Areas that have low family income but high personal debt are ones in which such companies make their return. They also advertise on television, during daytime TV, or into the evening. Frankly, the small print on their adverts is eye-popping - interest rates of 1,700%, 2,500% or even 4,000% are being charged by pay-day lenders. Doing nothing on this matter would be a massive abdication of responsibility.

Stella Creasy: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, and for revealing himself to be a viewer of "The Jeremy Kyle Show". He also shares a common concern that many people have raised with me about this matter, which is that when they see the interest rates -

Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): I admire my hon. Friend greatly, but will she please withdraw that assertion?

Stella Creasy: I withdraw my remarks entirely. I believe that it was "Cash in the Attic". When people see the adverts for these companies and their products, they often express surprise and disbelief, thinking that they have misread where the decimal point might be, which is an issue that my hon. Friend and I agree on.

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Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): I am pleased to report that I have a ticket that I can use on any train.

It is a great regret to people in the north-east that the illegal moneylending teams have been centralised in Birmingham. Although that may have brought managerial savings and economies of scale, I honestly do not think that taking the unit out of the north-east, where there is a significant problem, is the answer. It is not good enough for the Minister to say that doing something real and tangible with legal moneylenders will further drive people into the arms of illegal moneylenders. Two wrongs do not make a right. The whole point about illegal moneylenders is that they are illegal and can be dealt with.

Mr Hoban: Yes, they are illegal, but dealing with them is not perfect. Let us be honest, some people's decision to take out credit is not a voluntary choice - it may be the washing machine that breaks down or the fact that their money has run out before payday, but they need credit to live. I am concerned that the wrong measures will lead to a reduction in the supply of credit to those who need it most. If someone needs credit and cannot get it because their usual legal credit provider has closed down and withdrawn its service from their area, who do they go to? That is the challenge that we face, which is why we have to be careful about the consequences of some of the measures in the new clause.

This is an uncorrected transcript of evidence taken in public and reported to the House. The transcript has been placed on the internet on the authority of the Committee. Neither witnesses nor Members have had the opportunity to correct the record. The transcript is not yet an approved formal record of these proceedings.

The full transcript may be read here.

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