Andrew Stunell (Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Communities and Local Government): ... The hon. Member for Gateshead expressed concern about the stability of communities while drawing on his experience of churn in the private rented sector. In many large towns and cities, there are whole wards with significant numbers of private rented property, and I recognise that that can be a problem. London is an outstanding example of that. Our proposal clearly will not make a difference to the private rented sector, but I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I hope my response to the hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden shows that we are fully aware of the questions of stability and civic capacity that have to be considered.

Mr. Ian Mearns (Gateshead): The ward that I represented had about 1,700 properties in the private rented sector. There were about 2,500 that were owner-occupied and about 450 in the local authority sector, which was relatively low for my borough. The small estates containing the local authority housing were made up of high-demand, low turnover properties, but outside my ward, where the local authority properties were at a much higher density, there were particular estates in which there was high turnover and relatively low demand. We always want to strike a balance in housing management by not destabilising very stable communities while at the same time bringing some stability to the areas in which there is not such high demand. At the moment, I fail to see how these provisions would help us to achieve that.

Andrew Stunell: I certainly hesitate to give housing management advice to the Gateshead metropolitan borough. The hon. Gentleman might be right, and Gateshead may decide not to take advantage of this flexibility, but some authorities will. That brings me to the right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich, who certainly waxed lyrical - or perhaps Wagnerian - about what the proposal meant. It is interesting that the London borough of Greenwich's response to the consultation said that it welcomed the increased flexibility.

The right hon. Gentleman asked what the evidence base for the proposal was. I have given some of the evidence base - under-occupation and overcrowding. The consultation document gives us another bit of evidence, which is that many housing authorities believe that it would be useful to them, and useful to the social housing sector, if such flexibility was available. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman has read the responses, so he will have seen that there is a wide range of responses on how that flexibility could be used, and that is as it should be. We are giving social landlords and local authorities a capacity - a new tool - that they can use if they choose within parameters that will be clearly set out in the direction, which will be subject to further discussion in this place in due course. This is a sensible clause, so I strongly urge the Committee to support it.

+++

Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): I accept entirely what the Minister says, but the problem is that the way in which the legislation is drafted leaves it open for misguided tenants to go down that route. It is their time that we will be wasting. We may have a form letter that says, "Unfortunately, you are not in my constituency," but we should not be guiding them down that path in the first place.

Andrew Stunell (Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Communities and Local Government): There was a slight pause there while I counted to five. I really cannot see that the points that the hon. Gentleman and the right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich are making have any legitimacy. What we are providing is nothing different from the current rights that a tenant, or any constituent of ours, has to approach us. The idea that they will go into some detail on how they choose to interpret the meaning of the Bill before they approach us is a little bit fanciful.

+++

Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): I am interested in pursuing the matter, because we have been having a discussion with Ministers about the assets of the regional development agency in the North-East of England. We have written to the Prime Minister, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, asking what would happen to the assets of One NorthEast. On Monday, I had a letter from the Chancellor that clearly said that no decision had yet been made. In the North-East context, the regional development agency that is winding itself down has come to the conclusion that assets over liabilities comes to about £8 million or £9 million per year, being rental income from properties that have been developed as part of the property portfolio. So I just wonder whether the approach being taken with the London Development Agency is different to that being taken with regional development agencies in the other parts of the country.

Bob Neill (Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Communities and Local Government): I will not be tempted into a forward pass. The simple reality is a practical one, and there is no hidden difference. The RDAs outside London are being abolished through a different legislative route, and it is right that there will be a netting-off process, which I anticipate will apply within London as well. It just happens that because of the different governance system in London, where there will be a direct transfer of the LDA into an existing democratically accountable body, it is appropriate to use this route. The proposal does nothing more than give the enabling power for those transfers to take place: it does nothing about the quantum, which is the process that the hon. Gentleman was talking about.

Ian Mearns: I am sure that the Minister would not blame an hon. Member for trying.

This is an uncorrected transcript of evidence taken in public and reported to the House. The transcript has been placed on the internet on the authority of the Committee. Neither witnesses nor Members have had the opportunity to correct the record. The transcript is not yet an approved formal record of these proceedings.

The full transcript may be read here.

Promoted by Ken Childs on behalf of Ian Mearns, 12 Regent Terrace Gateshead NE8 1LU